Skip to main content

AN 8.63 four categories, vitakka, vicara, even dogs understand and use this.

It's not just oral tradition for humans, vitakka and vicara is a basic universal phenomena of how intelligent living beings hear, learn, process information and use it in everyday life.

Even dogs intuitively use and understand vitakka (thinking) and vicara (evaluation).
If you study the stories below, they're using the same paradigm as AN 8.63 three way samadhi with vitakka and vicara.

1. dog hears sound as vocalization/speech (vaca).
 2. dog brain mentally works with an audio image of that vaca, vaci-sankhara (vocalization co-activities/fabrications), in the form of  vitakka & vicara.
3. Dog hear's a vitakka command "fetch me a red frisbee" (frisbee is one of dog's 4 toy satipatthana categories).
Dog knows frisbee is not a plush toy, not a ball, etc. (3 other categories).
4. Dog uses vicara/evaluation and recognizes the grammatical structure that he's to get the 'red' frisbee, not the blue frisbee.


So if a dog understands vitakka and vicara, and MN 125 shows the elephant trainer giving vocalized instructions which the trained elephant has to understand and 'think' about with vitakka and vicāra, and this is in a first jhāna context, why does B. Sujato continue to 'think' vitakka means something other than linguistic verbal thoughts?

(here is B. Sujato's wrong translation of AN 8.63, where vitakka and vicara are 'placing the mind & keeping it connected).
https://suttacentral.net/an8.63/en/sujato
Clearly V&V is much more than that. The dog is parsing the grammar, differentiating between colors and categories, that's far more than just "placing the mind."



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8024135/Experts-train-border-collie-learn-90-different-toys-fetch-request.html
excerpt:
At first it was hard for me to believe that a dog learned the name of so many toys, but after several days of rigorous testing, I had to change my mind,' says lead researcher Claudia Fugazza of the Eötvös Loránd University in Hungary.
'We noticed that, among her toys, Whisky had several exemplars belonging to one of 4 categories: she had 10 different balls, 7 different rings, 4 different ropes and 4 different Frisbees,' the animal behaviour expert added.
The owners refer to each of these toys by both an adjective and a category name — for instance, the 'small Frisbee' or the 'colourful ring'.  

Whisky's owners had not explicitly trained the clever collie to learn different categories — but appeared to have picked them up in the course of play-centred interactions with her humans.
'This provided us a rare opportunity: testing whether a dog had spontaneously formed some mental categories, simply by being exposed to their exemplars — pretty much like a human child would do,' Dr Fugazza said.
'Most studies on the ability of non-human animals to categorise are conducted after the subjects are extensively trained to recognize categories with a given set of exemplars,' added paper co-author and animal behaviour expert Ádám Miklósi.


If you think having 90 words in their vocabulary is impressive, Dog named "chaser" knows 1000 words, and understands basic grammar.

3 min. video bio



12 min. interview on show 60 minutes.






Dog using proper EBT vitakka and vicara of first jhana:

'We noticed that, among her toys, Whisky had several exemplars belonging to one of 4 categories: she had 10 different balls, 7 different rings, 4 different ropes and 4 different Frisbees,' Dr Fugazza said. Pictured, Whisky plays outside with her owner


Dog trying to use B. Sujato's 'placing the mind' & 'Initial application'

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex