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DN 18 pali commentary on implicit jhana section. What does it say?

This section excerpted from DN 18, are clearly talking about using vitakka in sati-sambojjhanga to activate the 7sb awakening factor sequence straight into the 4 jhanas. Can someone fluent in pali summarize what the pali commentary says, and partially translate the phrases where it gets tied to which jhana?
7. Tividhaokāsādhigama
7. The Three Openings
“Taṃ kiṃ maƱƱanti, bhonto devā tāvatiṃsā, yāvaƱcidaṃ tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena tayo okāsādhigamā anubuddhā sukhassādhigamāya.
“What do the good gods of the Thirty-Three think about how much the Buddha has understood the three opportunities for achieving happiness?
Katame tayo?
What three?
Idha bho ekacco saṃsaṭṭho viharati kāmehi saṃsaṭṭho akusalehi dhammehi.
First, take someone who lives mixed up with sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities.
So aparena samayena ariyadhammaṃ suṇāti, yoniso manasi karoti, dhammānudhammaṃ paį¹­ipajjati.
After some time they hear the noble teaching, properly attend to how it applies to them, and practice accordingly.
So ariyadhammassavanaṃ āgamma yonisomanasikāraṃ dhammānudhammappaṭipattiṃ asaṃsaṭṭho viharati kāmehi asaṃsaṭṭho akusalehi dhammehi.
They live aloof from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities.
Tassa asaṃsaṭṭhassa kāmehi asaṃsaṭṭhassa akusalehi dhammehi uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
That gives rise to pleasure, and more than pleasure, happiness,
Seyyathāpi, bho, pamudā pāmojjaṃ jāyetha;
like the joy that’s born from gladness.
evameva kho, bho, asaṃsaṭṭhassa kāmehi asaṃsaṭṭhassa akusalehi dhammehi uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
Ayaṃ kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena paṭhamo okāsādhigamo anubuddho sukhassādhigamāya.
This is the first opportunity for achieving happiness.
Puna caparaṃ, bho, idhekaccassa oḷārikā kāyasaį¹…khārā appaį¹­ippassaddhā honti, oḷārikā vacÄ«saį¹…khārā appaį¹­ippassaddhā honti, oḷārikā cittasaį¹…khārā appaį¹­ippassaddhā honti.
Next, take someone whose coarse physical, verbal, and mental processes have not died down.
So aparena samayena ariyadhammaṃ suṇāti, yoniso manasi karoti, dhammānudhammaṃ paį¹­ipajjati.
After some time they hear the teaching of the noble ones, properly attend to how it applies to them, and practice accordingly.
Tassa ariyadhammassavanaṃ āgamma yonisomanasikāraṃ dhammānudhammappaį¹­ipattiṃ oḷārikā kāyasaį¹…khārā paį¹­ippassambhanti, oḷārikā vacÄ«saį¹…khārā paį¹­ippassambhanti, oḷārikā cittasaį¹…khārā paį¹­ippassambhanti.
Their coarse physical, verbal, and mental processes die down.
Tassa oḷārikānaṃ kāyasaį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā oḷārikānaṃ vacÄ«saį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā oḷārikānaṃ cittasaį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
That gives rise to pleasure, and more than pleasure, happiness,
Seyyathāpi, bho, pamudā pāmojjaṃ jāyetha;
like the joy that’s born from gladness.
evameva kho bho oḷārikānaṃ kāyasaį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā oḷārikānaṃ vacÄ«saį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā oḷārikānaṃ cittasaį¹…khārānaṃ paį¹­ippassaddhiyā uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
Ayaṃ kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena dutiyo okāsādhigamo anubuddho sukhassādhigamāya.
This is the second opportunity for achieving happiness.
Puna caparaṃ, bho, idhekacco ‘idaṃ kusalan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ nappajānāti, ‘idaṃ akusalan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ nappajānāti.
Next, take someone who doesn’t truly understand what is skillful and what is unskillful,
‘Idaṃ sāvajjaṃ idaṃ anavajjaṃ, idaṃ sevitabbaṃ idaṃ na sevitabbaṃ, idaṃ hÄ«naṃ idaṃ paṇītaṃ, idaṃ kaṇhasukkasappaį¹­ibhāgan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ nappajānāti.
what is blameworthy and what is blameless, what should be cultivated and what should not be cultivated, what is inferior and what is superior, and what is on the side of dark and the side of bright.
So aparena samayena ariyadhammaṃ suṇāti, yoniso manasi karoti, dhammānudhammaṃ paį¹­ipajjati.
After some time they hear the teaching of the noble ones, properly attend to how it applies to them, and practice accordingly.
So ariyadhammassavanaṃ āgamma yonisomanasikāraṃ dhammānudhammappaį¹­ipattiṃ, ‘idaṃ kusalan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ pajānāti, ‘idaṃ akusalan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ pajānāti.
They truly understand what is skillful and what is unskillful, and so on.
‘Idaṃ sāvajjaṃ idaṃ anavajjaṃ, idaṃ sevitabbaṃ idaṃ na sevitabbaṃ, idaṃ hÄ«naṃ idaṃ paṇītaṃ, idaṃ kaṇhasukkasappaį¹­ibhāgan’ti yathābhÅ«taṃ pajānāti.
Tassa evaṃ jānato evaṃ passato avijjā pahīyati, vijjā uppajjati.
Knowing and seeing like this, ignorance is given up and knowledge arises.
Tassa avijjāvirāgā vijjuppādā uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
That gives rise to pleasure, and more than pleasure, happiness,
Seyyathāpi, bho, pamudā pāmojjaṃ jāyetha;
like the joy that’s born from gladness.
evameva kho, bho, avijjāvirāgā vijjuppādā uppajjati sukhaṃ, sukhā bhiyyo somanassaṃ.
Ayaṃ kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena tatiyo okāsādhigamo anubuddho sukhassādhigamāya.
This is the third opportunity for achieving happiness.
Ime kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena tayo okāsādhigamā anubuddhā sukhassādhigamāyā”ti.
These are the three opportunities for achieving happiness that have been understood by the Buddha.”
Imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaį¹…kumāro bhāsittha,
That is the topic on which Brahmā Sanaį¹…kumāra spoke.
imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaį¹…kumāro bhāsitvā deve tāvatiṃse āmantesi:
And having spoken about that, he addressed the gods of the Thirty-Three:



   ♦  tividhaokāsādhigamavaṇṇanā
♦ 288. sukhassādhigamāyāti jhānasukhassa maggasukhassa phalasukhassa ca adhigamāya. saṃsaį¹­į¹­hoti sampayuttacitto. ariyadhammanti ariyena bhagavatā buddhena desitaṃ dhammaṃ. suṇātÄ«ti satthu sammukhā bhikkhubhikkhunīādÄ«hi vā desiyamānaṃ suṇāti. yoniso manasikarotÄ«ti upāyato pathato kāraṇato ‘aniccan’tiādivasena manasi karoti. “yoniso manasikāro nāma upāyamanasikāro pathamanasikāro, anicce aniccanti dukkhe dukkhanti anattani anattāti asubhe asubhanti saccānulomikena vā cittassa āvaį¹­į¹­anā anvāvaį¹­į¹­anā ābhogo samannāhāro manasikāro, ayaṃ vuccati yonisomanasikāro”ti. evaṃ vutte yonisomanasikāre kammaṃ ārabhatÄ«ti attho. asaṃsaį¹­į¹­hoti vatthukāmehipi kilesakāmehipi asaṃsaį¹­į¹­ho viharati. uppajjati sukhanti uppajjati paį¹­hamajjhānasukhaṃ. sukhā bhiyyo somanassanti samāpattito vuį¹­į¹­hitassa jhānasukhapaccayā aparāparaṃ somanassaṃ uppajjati. pamudāti tuį¹­į¹­hākārato dubbalapÄ«ti. pāmojjanti balavataraṃ pÄ«tisomanassaṃ. paį¹­hamo okāsādhigamoti paį¹­hamajjhānaṃ paƱcanÄ«varaṇāni vikkhambhetvā attano okāsaṃ gahetvā tiį¹­į¹­hati, tasmā “paį¹­hamo okāsādhigamo”ti vuttaṃ.
♦ oḷārikāti ettha kāyavacÄ«saį¹…khārā tāva oḷārikā hontu, cittasaį¹…khārā kathaṃ oḷārikāti? appahÄ«nattā. kāyasaį¹…khārā hi catutthajjhānena pahÄ«yanti, vacÄ«saį¹…khārā dutiyajjhānena, cittasaį¹…khārā nirodhasamāpattiyā. iti kāyavacÄ«saį¹…khāresu pahÄ«nesupi te tiį¹­į¹­hantiyevāti pahÄ«ne upādāya appahÄ«nattā oḷārikā nāma jātā. sukhanti nirodhā vuį¹­į¹­hahantassa uppannaṃ catutthajjhānikaphalasamāpattisukhaṃ. sukhā bhiyyo somanassati phalasamāpattito vuį¹­į¹­hitassa aparāparaṃ somanassaṃ. dutiyo okāsādhigamoti catutthajjhānaṃ sukhaṃ dukkhaṃ vikkhambhetvā attano okāsaṃ gahetvā tiį¹­į¹­hati, tasmā “dutiyo okāsādhigamo”ti vuttaṃ. dutiyatatiyajjhānāni panettha catutthe gahite gahitāneva hontÄ«ti visuṃ na vuttānÄ«ti.
♦ idaṃ kusalantiādÄ«su kusalaṃ nāma dasakusalakammapathā. akusalanti dasākusalakammapathā. sāvajjadukādayopi etesaṃ vaseneva veditabbā. sabbaƱceva panetaṃ kaṇhaƱca sukkaƱca sappaį¹­ibhāgaƱcāti kaṇhasukkasappaį¹­ibhāgaṃ. nibbānameva hetaṃ appaį¹­ibhāgaṃ. avijjā pahÄ«yatÄ«ti vaį¹­į¹­apaį¹­icchādikā avijjā pahÄ«yati. vijjā uppajjatÄ«ti arahattamaggavijjā uppajjati. sukhanti arahattamaggasukhaƱceva phalasukhaƱca. sukhā bhiyyo somanassanti phalasamāpattito vuį¹­į¹­hitassa aparāparaṃ somanassaṃ. tatiyo okāsādhigamoti arahattamaggo sabbakilese vikkhambhetvā attano okāsaṃ gahetvā tiį¹­į¹­hati, tasmā “tatiyo okāsādhigamo”ti vutto. sesamaggā pana tasmiṃ gahite antogadhā evāti visuṃ na vuttā.
♦ ime pana tayo okāsādhigamā aį¹­į¹­hatiṃsārammaṇavasena vitthāretvā kathetabbā. kathaṃ? sabbāni ārammaṇāni visuddhimagge vuttanayeneva upacāravasena ca appanāvasena ca vavatthapetvā catuvÄ«satiyā į¹­hānesu paį¹­hamajjhānaṃ “paį¹­hamo okāsādhigamo”ti kathetabbaṃ. terasasu į¹­hānesu dutiyatatiyajjhānāni, pannarasasu į¹­hānesu catutthajjhānaƱca nirodhasamāpattiṃ pāpetvā “dutiyo okāsādhigamo”ti kathetabbaṃ. dasa upacārajjhānāni pana maggassa padaį¹­į¹­hānabhÅ«tāni tatiyaṃ okāsādhigamaṃ bhajanti. apica tÄ«su sikkhāsu adhisÄ«lasikkhā paį¹­hamaṃ okāsādhigamaṃ bhajati, adhicittasikkhā dutiyaṃ, adhipaƱƱāsikkhā tatiyanti evaṃ sikkhāvasenapi kathetabbaṃ. sāmaƱƱaphalepi cūḷasÄ«lato yāva paį¹­hamajjhānā paį¹­hamo okāsādhigamo, dutiyajjhānato yāva nevasaƱƱānāsaƱƱāyatanā dutiyo, vipassanāto yāva arahattā tatiyo okāsādhigamoti evaṃ sāmaƱƱaphalasuttantavasenapi kathetabbaṃ. tÄ«su pana piį¹­akesu vinayapiį¹­akaṃ paį¹­hamaṃ okāsādhigamaṃ bhajati, suttantapiį¹­akaṃ dutiyaṃ, abhidhammapiį¹­akaṃ tatiyanti evaṃ piį¹­akavasenapi kathetabbaṃ.
♦ pubbe kira mahātherā vassÅ«panāyikāya imameva suttaṃ paį¹­į¹­hapenti. kiṃ kāraṇā? tīṇi piį¹­akāni vibhajitvā kathetuṃ labhissāmāti. tepiį¹­akena hi samodhānetvā kathentassa dukkathitanti na sakkā vattuṃ. tepiį¹­akaṃ bhajāpetvā kathitameva idaṃ suttaṃ sukathitaṃ hotÄ«ti.



Bonus question: 

under the iddhipada section, same DN 18 sutta, what is the commentary saying exactly, about the jhana and upacara jhana?


6. Bhāvitaiddhipāda
6. Developing the Bases of Psychic Power
“Taṃ kiṃ maƱƱanti, bhonto devā tāvatiṃsā, yāva supaƱƱattā cime tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena cattāro iddhipādā paƱƱattā iddhipahutāya iddhivisavitāya iddhivikubbanatāya.
“What do the good gods of the Thirty-Three think about how much the four bases of psychic power have been clearly described by the Blessed One—the one who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha—for the multiplication, generation, and transformation of corporeal forms through psychic power?
Katame cattāro?
What four?
Idha bho bhikkhu chandasamādhippadhānasaį¹…khārasamannāgataṃ iddhipādaṃ bhāveti.
It’s when a mendicant develops the basis of psychic power that has undistractible-lucidity due to enthusiasm, and active effort.
VÄ«riyasamādhippadhānasaį¹…khārasamannāgataṃ iddhipādaṃ bhāveti.
They develop the basis of psychic power that has undistractible-lucidity due to energy, and active effort.
Cittasamādhippadhānasaį¹…khārasamannāgataṃ iddhipādaṃ bhāveti.
They develop the basis of psychic power that has undistractible-lucidity due to mental development, and active effort.
VÄ«maṃsāsamādhippadhānasaį¹…khārasamannāgataṃ iddhipādaṃ bhāveti.
They develop the basis of psychic power that has undistractible-lucidity due to inquiry, and active effort.
Ime kho, bho, tena bhagavatā jānatā passatā arahatā sammāsambuddhena cattāro iddhipādā paƱƱattā iddhipahutāya iddhivisavitāya iddhivikubbanatāya.
These are the four bases of psychic power that have been clearly described by the Buddha, for the multiplication, generation, and transformation of corporeal forms through psychic power.
Ye hi keci bho atÄ«tamaddhānaṃ samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā anekavihitaṃ iddhividhaṃ paccanubhosuṃ, sabbe te imesaṃyeva catunnaṃ iddhipādānaṃ bhāvitattā bahulÄ«katattā.
All the ascetics and brahmins in the past,
Yepi hi keci bho anāgatamaddhānaṃ samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā anekavihitaṃ iddhividhaṃ paccanubhossanti, sabbe te imesaṃyeva catunnaṃ iddhipādānaṃ bhāvitattā bahulÄ«katattā.
future,
Yepi hi keci bho etarahi samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā anekavihitaṃ iddhividhaṃ paccanubhonti, sabbe te imesaṃyeva catunnaṃ iddhipādānaṃ bhāvitattā bahulÄ«katattā.
or present who wield the many kinds of psychic power do so by developing and cultivating these four bases of psychic power.
Passanti no, bhonto devā tāvatiṃsā, mamapimaṃ evarÅ«paṃ iddhānubhāvan”ti?
Gentlemen, do you see such psychic might and power in me?”
“Evaṃ, mahābrahme”ti.
“Yes, Great Brahmā.”
“Ahampi kho bho imesaṃyeva catunnaƱca iddhipādānaṃ bhāvitattā bahulÄ«katattā evaṃ mahiddhiko evaṃmahānubhāvo”ti.
“I too became so mighty and powerful by developing and cultivating these four bases of psychic power.”
Imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaį¹…kumāro bhāsittha.
That is the topic on which Brahmā Sanaį¹…kumāra spoke.
Imamatthaṃ, bhante, brahmā sanaį¹…kumāro bhāsitvā deve tāvatiṃse āmantesi:
And having spoken about that, he addressed the gods of the Thirty-Three:


 ♦  bhāvitaiddhipādavaṇṇanā
♦ 287. yāvasupaƱƱattā cime tena bhagavatāti tena mayhaṃ satthārā bhagavatā yāva supaƱƱattā yāva sukathitā. iddhipādāti ettha ijjhanaį¹­į¹­hena iddhi, patiį¹­į¹­hānaį¹­į¹­hena pādāti veditabbā. iddhipahutāyāti iddhipahonakatāya. iddhivisavitāyāti iddhivipajjanabhāvāya, punappunaṃ āsevanavasena ciṇṇavasitāyāti vuttaṃ hoti. iddhivikubbanatāyāti iddhivikubbanabhāvāya, nānappakārato katvā dassanatthāya. chandasamādhippadhānasaį¹…khārasamannāgatantiādÄ«su chandahetuko chandādhiko vā samādhi chandasamādhi, kattukamyatāchandaṃ adhipatiṃ karitvā paį¹­iladdhasamādhissetaṃ adhivacanaṃ. padhānabhÅ«tā saį¹…khārā padhānasaį¹…khārā. catukiccasādhakassa sammappadhānavÄ«riyassetaṃ adhivacanaṃ. samannāgatanti chandasamādhinā ca padhānasaį¹…khārena ca upetaṃ. iddhipādanti nipphattipariyāyena ijjhanaį¹­į¹­hena vā, ijjhanti etāya sattā iddhā vuddhā ukkaṃsagatā hontÄ«ti iminā vā pariyāyena iddhÄ«ti saį¹…khyaṃ gatānaṃ abhiƱƱācittasampayuttānaṃ chandasamādhipadhānasaį¹…khārānaṃ adhiį¹­į¹­hānaį¹­į¹­hena pādabhÅ«to sesacittacetasikarāsÄ«ti attho. vuttaƱhetaṃ “iddhipādoti tathābhÅ«tassa vedanākkhandho, saƱƱākkhandho, saį¹…khārakkhandho viññāṇakkhandho”ti (vibha. 434). iminā nayena sesesupi attho veditabbo. yatheva hi chandaṃ adhipatiṃ karitvā paį¹­iladdhasamādhi chandasamādhÄ«ti vutto, evaṃ vÄ«riyaṃ, cittaṃ, vÄ«maṃsaṃ adhipatiṃ karitvā paį¹­iladdhasamādhi vÄ«maṃsāsamādhÄ«ti vuccati. apica upacārajjhānaṃ pādo, paį¹­hamajjhānaṃ iddhi. saupacāraṃ paį¹­hamajjhānaṃ pādo, dutiyajjhānaṃ iddhÄ«ti evaṃ pubbabhāge pādo, aparabhāge iddhÄ«ti evamettha attho veditabbo. vitthārena iddhipādakathā visuddhimagge ca vibhaį¹…gaį¹­į¹­hakathāya ca vuttā.
♦ keci pana “nipphannā iddhi. anipphanno iddhipādo”ti vadanti, tesaṃ vādamaddanatthāya abhidhamme uttaracūḷikavāro nāma ābhato “cattāro iddhipādā chandiddhipādo, vÄ«riyiddhipādo, cittiddhipādo, vÄ«maṃsiddhipādo. tattha katamo chandiddhipādo? idha bhikkhu yasmiṃ samaye lokuttaraṃ jhānaṃ bhāveti niyyānikaṃ apacayagāmiṃ diį¹­į¹­higatānaṃ pahānāya paį¹­hamāya bhÅ«miyā pattiyā vivicceva kāmehi paį¹­hamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati dukkhāpaį¹­ipadaṃ dandhābhiƱƱaṃ. yo tasmiṃ samaye chando chandikatā kattukamyatā kusalo dhammacchando, ayaṃ vuccati chandiddhipādo, avasesā dhammā chandiddhipādasampayuttā”ti (vibha. 458). ime pana lokuttaravaseneva āgatā. tattha raį¹­į¹­hapālatthero chandaṃ dhuraṃ katvā lokuttaraṃ dhammaṃ nibbattesi. soṇatthero vÄ«riyaṃ dhuraṃ katvā, sambhÅ«tatthero cittaṃ dhuraṃ katvā, āyasmā mogharājā vÄ«maṃsaṃ dhuraṃ katvāti.
♦ tattha yathā catÅ«su amaccaputtesu į¹­hānantaraṃ patthetvā rājānaṃ upanissāya viharantesu eko upaį¹­į¹­hāne chandajāto raƱƱo ajjhāsayaƱca ruciƱca Ʊatvā divā ca ratto ca upaį¹­į¹­hahanto rājānaṃ ārādhetvā į¹­hānantaraṃ pāpuṇi. yathā so, evaṃ chandadhurena lokuttaradhammanibbattako veditabbo.
♦ eko pana “divase divase upaį¹­į¹­hātuṃ ko sakkoti, uppanne kicce parakkamena ārādhessāmÄ«”ti kupite paccante raƱƱā pahito parakkamena sattumaddanaṃ katvā į¹­hānantaraṃ pāpuṇi. yathā so, evaṃ vÄ«riyadhurena lokuttaradhammanibbattako veditabbo.
♦ eko “divase divase upaį¹­į¹­hānampi urena sattisarapaį¹­icchannampi bhāroyeva, mantabalena ārādhessāmÄ«”ti khattavijjāya kataparicayattā mantasaṃvidhānena rājānaṃ ārādhetvā į¹­hānantaraṃ pāpuṇāti. yathā so, evaṃ cittadhurena lokuttaradhammanibbattako veditabbo.
♦ aparo “kiṃ imehi upaį¹­į¹­hānādÄ«hi, rājāno nāma jātisampannassa į¹­hānantaraṃ denti, tādisassa dento mayhaṃ dassatÄ«”ti jātisampattimeva nissāya į¹­hānantaraṃ pāpuṇi, yathā so, evaṃ suparisuddhaṃ vÄ«maṃsaṃ nissāya vÄ«maṃsadhurena lokuttaradhammanibbattako veditabbo.
♦ anekavihitanti anekavidhaṃ. iddhividhanti iddhikoį¹­į¹­hāsaṃ.


what does DN 18 pali commentary say about the implicit jhana passage?

Post by frank k » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:29 pm

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Link to lucid24.org home page :    4šŸ‘‘☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think šŸ”—šŸ“notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paį¹­hamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmÄ«’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? KiƱcetaṁ   paį¹­icca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...